Gold Confiscation
 

Could it happen again?

http://i362.photobucket.com/albums/o...tialExecut.jpg

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

No point. Theres not enough gold now to re-back us if we tried.

More likely they'll make some generic basket of commodities to back a currency.. I.E. Oil/nat gas, Wheat/corn, metals, etc... If it ever comes to that......

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

Much more wealth to plunder through printing money...

Why overtly steal when a trillion in a day does not raise eyebrows...

We are so screwed.

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

Amazing how much pre-33 gold is around in spite of the confiscation.
Hell - might as well make it April 1st for all the good it will do;

Lot's of good hardworking folks will be legislated into criminals in an instant.
The slide down the slippery slope will have many deciding on which laws they care to obey. From there it will get interesting.

ST

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

So they let everyone keep 5 - 1 oz coins per person. Wonder if they will allow the same this time around?

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

i thought USA is called the "LAND OF THE FREE" ?

:thumpdown

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

It is. One is free to do as the government says or else pay the consequences. See, you have a choice.

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

If the gov't confiscates anything, it will probably be IRA's and 401K's. There is more paper "wealth" in that and it is easy for the gov't to confiscate retirement accounts IMHO. I do not think the gov't will confiscate gold but then again......................

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

How are they really going to know if you have gold?

So what if there are paper trails of purchse, maybe you sold it all.
They will NEVER get my gold.

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

Just to even imagine that this nation created an executive order to do this is shocking.

To think, here the president is telling the people that they must give up their constitutional rights to liberty, in general, and to gold money, in particular and turn them over to a PRIVATE THIRD PARTY, the federal reserve bank or a member bank thereof, and that if they don't they could go to jail for many years.

If the dollar becomes worthless by way of foreign repudiation of it and the inability to pay off the interest on the debt with anything of value, then TPTB might decide to steal gold once again.

If fiat money is rejected by the marketplace in a move to a medium with intrinsic value then TPTB may have no choice but to steal through confiscation as printing fiat would simply waste their time.

I doubt things unfold like this, but it is more than a simple remote possibility.

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

Sorry, but this is silly. They're not going to confiscate your gold. They don't have to. They can simply tax it away from you.

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

how can one destroy (make it useless) gold and silver? if they decide to steal/take what was lawfully purchased and worked for or prevent the use/trade of lawfully obtained bullion then I would rather see it destroyed then let them have any of it.

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

yep just like the Congress wants to tax the AIG bonus earners 90%(I'm not saying the contracts for these bonuses make sense but they were legally set), they will just change the rules.

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

There's no incentive to go after the people's bullion since we're no longer on a gold standard and 99% of the population has never even touched a gold coin. I think instead they would go after the ETF gold vaults.

Or just start a cash4gold scam and steal the people's scrap gold for pennies on the dollar.

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

Don't get your shorts in a wad, even if these loons confinscated every gram of gold on earth it woulden't even begin to pay the bills they are creating.
non topic.

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

You my Friend are dead on, this will be done in less than 3 years from now.
It will be for your own good.

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

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Ol' Chucky can just do a "find and replace" a few times and he won't even have to write a new speech. Just replace "employees" with "hoarders", then insert "gold" for "money" and "precious metals" for "bonuses".

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

......or maybe a phyiscal gold owner decided to take their gold with them on their boat and somehow had a "boating accident" and as a result the PMs were "lost" and never recovered..........:111:....There seems to be a lot of "boating accidents" happening to GIMmers..:111: I am glad I do not have a boat. :111:. But seriously like Curmudgeonista said, the gov't can just tax the gold to oblivion when it comes time for you sell it. The gov't would not have to take it from you physically.

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

They could change the rules to make it hard to sell the physical (not paper) without first paying a punitive tax, unless of course it's all off the books. But if everyone was rushing the exits to sell at the same time, would there be enough off the book buyers that were willing to pay "x"? They'd be sharking too since they would be the only game in town.

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

You'd be like a drug runner and each COIN would bring $25,000 each.

:wink:

Now wouldn't that be TERRIBLE? :111::111:

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

The difference is, we'd be trying to smuggle the stuff OUT of the country!

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

The Revolution Was by Garet Garrett; click here: http://mises.org/story/2726

It is a scathing critique of FDR and his New Deal. Regarding gold confiscation, read chapter 2: To Seize Economic Power - it is a brilliant read on this period of US history.

Senator Glass, former Secretary of the Treasury in April 1933:

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

I was trying to KEEP that "PART" a bit QUIET.

COMPRENDE? (? should be UPSIDE down for EFFECT! - but my keyboard ain't ESPANOL - oops!):aetsch::haha::haha::haha::signs8:

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

Look at the practical side. The FDR administration UP COUPLED gold from the US dollar immediately raising it up from $20 to $35 within 6 months.

Then TPTB printed the wholly molly out of the fiat US dollar and then we had 100 billion (1930s) now we have a hidden 20,000 billion - 200 TIMES more (approx. enough for _____ {fill in your word :111:} govt. work) than when we started. Automatic for PM to really scoot for they are only about a fourth of their true value according to the naked sellers on paper in the CRIMEX.

Then if any new orders are passed - times that by TEN! :111:

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

When FDR confiscated gold, people were told to turn it in, in exchange for paper money. However, homes were never raided. They didn't send shock troops in after it. IIRC, no one was ever arrested for not turning in their gold. The real penalty was that they couldn't spend it.

Regarding the risk of taxation: there is already a 28% tax on the gains from gold in the US. Might be hard to enforce on person-to-person exchanges of physical, though. Just guessing on that, of course.

Here's the big reason why I don't think confiscation or confiscatory taxes will happen: how do you think Congress and the Corporatists will be protecting their wealth? Government bonds?

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

I have a good point there. I did not think about that.

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

I just can't say never. The people trusted the Gov't then.

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

And as I understand it - "AIG" :111::111::111: was insuring the US CONGRESSIONAL PENSIONS - so guess what - they bailing that puppy out PRONTO
QUICKLY ASAP NOW TODAY. It sure DOES rhyme.

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

I have a GREAT book for you.

"FOR GOOD AND EVIL" - by Adams.





*For Good and Evil, Second Edition: The Impact of Taxes on the Course of Civilization (Paperback)
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Editorial Reviews
From Publishers Weekly
This sweeping anecdotal survey of taxes through the ages aims to support the author's libertarian attacks on the current U.S. tax system and his call for a flat tax of 10% to replace the current income tax system. Tax attorney Adams ( Fight, Flight, Fraud: The Story of Taxation ) considers taxation a vital force in molding history; his discussions of civilizations ranging from that of ancient Greece to the French ancien regime are sometimes intriguing. For example, he suggests that the offer of tax immunity, rather than religious ideology, may have fueled the spread of Islam in the seventh and eighth centuries. But Adams does not engage other historians to argue his ideas, and he can be inaccurate with facts--forgetting Hugo Black, he writes that by the time of Nixon's presidency, the Supreme Court "had not had a Southerner for a hundred years." Some of his proposed reforms seem worthy--establish a crime for tax extortion, decriminalize the tax law--but others are dubious, such as the suggestion that members of Congress and federal judges be "immune" from the IRS. Moreover, his argument that low taxes were crucial to the "miracle economies" of Asia is simplistic; still more glaring is his failure to assess the impact of the Reagan administration's tax policies.
Copyright 1993 Reed Business Information, Inc. --This text refers to the Hardcover edition.

From Library Journal
Adams, a tax attorney, presents the history of taxation from ancient times to the present. He studies tax law and collection procedures in ancient Egypt, Rome, Israel, Asia, Europe, and the United States, describing how taxation played a pivotal role in such earth-shattering events as the fall of Rome, the signing of the Magna Carta, and the American Revolution. The author analyzes lessons learned through study of the past and recommends measures for possible tax reform. The selected bibliography provides an excellent guide to further research. This important, timely study is highly recommended for business and history collections.
- Lucy Heckman, St. John's Univ. Lib., New York
Copyright 1993 Reed Business Information, Inc. --This text refers to the Hardcover edition.

From Kirkus Reviews
A fascinating though monochromatic libertarian history of tax policy from Babylon to Bibi Anderson, by a home-grown Will Durant of the accounting profession. Adams (a Buffalo tax attorney) explains the rise and fall of civilizations by the kinds of taxes levied and the means used to collect them. In ancient Egypt, for example, although the Pharoah's scribes taxed harvests, imports, exports, domestic sales, and slaves--everything except income, the tax on which is a modern innovation--only with tax immunity for priests and a consequent perception of tax inequity did rebellion and imperial collapse ensue. The Rosetta stone, like much of early history, is seen by Adams as a tax record. Rome fell because the egalitarian tax reforms of Emperor Julian were vitiated and finally overturned by his greedy, arbitrary successors. The Moslem hordes of the Middle Ages are seen as mild-mannered revenue agents, which explains why Islam spread so widely before the world's first excise tax unhinged its empire. Later, Enlightenment thinkers equated liberty with tax consent and defined tax freedom as a ``natural right'': The American Revolution codified that strain of thought, and Adams holds to it here as well. In his final chapters, he argues that post-WW II American tax policy replicates the errors of the Romans and the scribes--including widespread antidemocratic tax ``spying'' and taxation basically without consent--and he predicts disaster if reform isn't forthcoming. Adams will annoy liberals by not judging a tax on the merits of its use: He defines a good tax as one that's accepted by its subjects and that promotes industry and privacy. Out of step with current White House thinking, then, but making points well worth considering. -- Copyright �1993, Kirkus Associates, LP. All rights reserved. --This text refers to the Hardcover edition.

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

For those woried about taxes..... If you're keeping PMs because the value of fiat is going down, why would you sell your PMs for fiat and face the tax?

As things get bad enough for your PMs to be worth selling to buy things, you should be bartering with it... trade an ounce for a car etc... no tax on either side of the transaction....

They could make the tax rate 90% and it wouldnt change its power as a barter device...

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

Uh, the question of using taxes to rob PM owners of their wealth, as opposed to outright confiscation, need not be limited to a tax on profits. It could just as well be a "property tax" on all PM's owned. Easy to do, if not a little difficult to enforce. Nevertheless, the idea would be to stem controversy and avoid the appearance of a violation of personal or civil rights. Using taxation to do it becomes a point of law, to be argued over only in detail, not in principle (at least as far as Congress, the MSM and general public are concerned).

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

SSSHHHhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't give them any ideas:36_1_28:

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

America is talking a VALUE ADDED TAX ( aka VAT) - like Europe over and above your individual STATE tax ON all purchases.:yes: Perhaps another 10% ON everything.:111:

Barter anyONE?:23_1_22:

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

Why would the tax have to be related to PMs? Just raise the real estate taxes high enough that the people have to convert some gold to fiat in order to pay them.

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

they confiscated gold because in 1933, that is where the large sums of money were.

there are not going to confiscate gold this time around, because in terms of wealth, there frankly isn't any gold wealth in the avergae american household.

where does the average american household keep the big money in 2009? 401ks, iras, and other retirement vehicles. that's what they're going to confiscate this time.

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

GLD & SLV plus nationalize the GOLD miners in America plus like you said "(grab) 401ks, iras, and other retirement vehicles. that's what they're going to confiscate this time."

Now that would JUST about do it.

:wink::yes:

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

GLD & SLV plus nationalize the GOLD miners in America plus like you said "(grab) 401ks, iras, and other retirement vehicles. that's what they're going to confiscate this time."

Now that would JUST about do it.

Remeber John Dillinger said, "I rob banks because that's where the money is!"

Well the BANSTERS GANGSTERS GOVERNMENTERS are all the same NOW!

:111::111:

:wink::yes:

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

Yes, it could happen again. It's all the state's property, don't you know? You included.

Be alert for the start of a media campaign to demonize gold at some point. They'll probably say the terrists or the drug dealers are using it to hide their evil money, or some dumb thing like that.

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

I think it would be fun bartering with you HS but you probably live thousands of miles from me =( :36_3_12:

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

Funny thing is that I was just reading about what to GET to barter with.

Canned meat
Canned vegetables
Freeze dried foods (Mountain House google Survival Unlimitted)
Hunting Ammo Those way out West
Pistol ammo Those in large cities
Scotch Wiskey or Jack Daniels
Cigarettes
Light Bulbs & batteries
Gold silver platinum coins
Paper towels
Toilet paper - I'll bet Jar Jar would bear down tight for that one! :wink:

Just kidding!

I was thinking about going down to BEVMO and grab a few cases of hootch.
Thinking - I quit drinking 30 years ago but these times are making me "BEAR DOWN TIGHT!" :36_1_25::111::111:

Best wishes,

HS

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

Wouldn't have to be just PM's. Wouldn't have to be just RE. However, the thread was about confiscation of gold. I don't believe outright confiscation is the way it would happen and I was merely showing an example of how the Feds could force you out without the appearance of impropriety.

Frankly, I think the 1933 recall of gold was more about taking existing gold coinage out of circulation than trying to steal the country's wealth. Looking forward, though, I'd be more skeptical. I think we are quickly sliding down the road to absolute Socialism in the US. If so, it won't be done "October Revolution" style. It will be done in methodical steps, with one of them possibly being the "confiscation" of wealth through forms of taxation we've not yet even dreamed of.

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

Better add tea for me and coffee for Jar Jar,,,,Jar Jar will be a bear without coffee!!!!We don't drink alcoholic beverages....shoot I could sniff the cap and get a buzz!!!!!!! :4_1_72: :wink:

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

Actually, I think it was Willie Sutton that said that in response to a reporter's question on why he was a bank robber.....


As to gold confiscation, almost 100% of the folks that talk about it have it wrong.

The deal in 1933 was NOT about actually GETTING gold.....because they didn't get enough to bother with.....the wee little people either didn't have much ( like today ) or simply didn't comply, and the big money folks moved theirs offshore in advance.

The purpose of making gold "illegal" was twofold:

1. It stopped convertibility of paper to gold. When BOTH were in circulation, if the govt started printing too much paper, people could convert it to gold by simply going to the bank and exchanging paper for gold ( cool idea, huh ? ). That would hinder the govt's ability to print...or at least make it extremely obvious what they were doing if gold became scarce and the price began to rise outside the "official" $20/oz price realm.

THIS was the main reason they had to get gold separated from the public's mind as "money".

2. The second reason, and this was specifically written in the language of the law, was to get rid of those damn "gold contracts".

Since US fiat paper was also "legal tender" because of the legal tender act of 1878 ( and tested before the Supreme court in 1884 Juilliard v Greenman 110 US 421 ), people started writing contracts to be paid IN GOLD as an end run around the paper legal tender laws. If you specifically stated that you were to be paid in gold, the other party couldn't come back after the debt was established and stick you with paper notes, which was exactly why Juilliard sued Greenman.....because people recognized that gold was money, and paper was at the whim of the printing press. That notion had to be removed from the public's mind in order for the govt/bankers to gain TOTAL control of the money system.


Now, since NEITHER of these apply today, the govt/bankers having been quite successful in convincing the public that gold is a mere "barbaric relic", and the public holds less gold today than probably any time in history and knows less about it ( heck, why else would the "Cash 4 Gold" folks be able to buy your old jewelry for 10 cents on the dollar ? ) than ever before, why bother to even bring it up ?

A new "GOLD CONFISCATION ACT" would simply give people yet another reason to question the paper fiat system, which the govt/bankers have worked for generations to establish as the ONE TRUE MONEY.....

So, the only place you hear much about confiscation is from coin salesmen that hawk overpriced, pre-33 US coins and a few goldbugs like us......99.99% of the public AND the govt doesn't give a flip, I think......

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

:applause_:applause_:applause_
Well said..........

ST

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

Agreed.

Let's also point out that the term "confiscation" used with regard to the 1933 act is not really quite accurate in connotation. Those who did turn in gold were paid for it at the, then-current, going rate. This is not often explained by the marketeers who use what happened in 1933 as a scare tactic to, as you so eloquently put it, "hawk overpriced, pre-33 US coins".

What got really hinky was that the next year the fixed exchange rate of dollars to gold (for int'l transactions) was raised from just over $20 up to $35, thereby devaluing the US dollar (including those funds that had so recently been paid out for the gold).

Re: Gold Confiscation
 

IMHO, gold confiscation these days would more likely be accomplished by declaring it a strategic commodity and/or regulating it under bogus "national security concerns" if/when any SHTF.:36_1_28::signs14:

R.